Wood preservation concerns, comments, and questions?

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  • May 12, 2013 11:51 PM
    Message # 1291653
    Deleted user
    I've been reading a lot trying to learn about sailing, living while at sea and taking care of a boat and currently I'm reading the Capable cruiser by the Pardeys and specifically chapter 17 explores a fantastically simple solution to preserve wood on a sailboat. 

    It's this ritual of leaving the wood bare only cleaning it with a soft bristle brush and dish soap every few months or so. They also mention salt water rinses (as I interpret it) often. Can it be this simple? I feel as if I am misunderstanding the text. 

    Long story short, soon I am refinishing my cap rails and may consider this advice of leaving it bare with no varnish or other coatings. 

    Is this frowned upon? What's your take on this? 
    Last modified: May 12, 2013 11:54 PM | Deleted user
  • May 13, 2013 7:05 PM
    Reply # 1292481 on 1291653
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Micheal:

    Since you are refinishing your cap rails here is a link to solving issues with caprail leaking which if you have this issue - should be done before the refinishing. 

    As far as the choice of finish - there are finishes that in the SF area will  last about a year w/o refinishing and just need a top gloss coat yearly.  I happen to use Cetol and if I did it again - would use the natural under the gloss coat. 

    That being said - others do leave the teak unfinished and just wash it down from time to time.  What I've noticed is that the unfinished teak will become rough as the softer parts will wear away from sun, rain and scrubbing. Of course, repeat sanding to remove old finish will remove wood also.

    In the members area -- look for images from members and review albums to see different finishes.

    It's mostly a matter of the look you want - then determine the best product for your needs. 

    Jay    

  • May 14, 2013 3:00 PM
    Reply # 1293201 on 1291653

    As long as were talking about finishing wood. a lot of people have talked about 2 coats of epoxy followed by Cetol. It appears to me that Cetol is more of a stain type of finish that soaks into the wood. How can you apply it over epoxy which would seem to keep it from soaking in. I'm still learning

    Thanks ahead of time

    Greg

     

  • May 14, 2013 5:44 PM
    Reply # 1293298 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    It's just my humble opinion, but I would recommend strongly against leaving the cap rails unfinished.  I know two boats that went that way.  An absolutely gorgeous Hans Christian 38 and a well maintained Tayana 37.  Both were/are well kept except for the cap rails.  The HC's cap rails are so far gone that they can't be restored and the owners wife of the Tayana told me that after her husband passed away she had to sell the boat well under market value because of the condition of the teak.

    We prefer Crystal by Detco which lasted two years in Mexico.  Due to an injury we were not able to tend to the boat for 1-1/2 years.  By then the cap rails had to be striped and we chose to go with an Interlux varnish because it only needed to be sanded every third coat. The Crystal was getting expensive and hard to get.  It didn't look good when put it on and looked like crap six months later. We don't know if it's the varnish or the two coats of West systems we put down firs.

     Last summer Julie striped the turtle deck, hatch boards, and deck boxes.  She the put two coats of West systems, ten coats of Epiphanes wood gloss finish ( it doesn't need to be sanded between coats), and two coats of Epiphanes gloss.  A year later they look just as good and the summers are brutal here in the Delta on varnish.

    She just put the first coat of Epiphanes Wood gloss finish today after striping the cap rails.  We chose not to use West first and are sticking to the manufactures instruction to be safe as it's a lot of work and we don't want to have to do this again. 

    Jim  
    Last modified: May 14, 2013 6:20 PM | Deleted user
  • May 14, 2013 6:26 PM
    Reply # 1293320 on 1291653
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Greg:

    Cetol to my knowledge has 2 parts, the "base coat" which can be colored (I think they are calling this Natural teak) or clear and a top/gloss clear coat.  Each part is suggested in two coats applied with a drying time between. They are advertising "new Wave" technology which claims to be new/better...

    The base coat doesn't act like stain ie soak into the teak so much as lay on top and protect.

    What I started working on Pygmalion - all the exterior teak was grey with fragments of finish.  I found that when I sanded the teak smooth- flat it did remove more teak then I'd like but the finish lasted much longer - I'm thinking the grain grooves allow moisture to stand and speeds up the sun burning through.

    If you yearly, clean with soap and water - then use a fine nylon pad to rough up the gloss coat - wipe clean and apply another coat of gloss - you should not need to resand / and base coat for several years - and then in only the areas that are damaged or sun burned.

    Hope this help.

    Jay 

     

  • May 15, 2013 6:54 AM
    Reply # 1293693 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    Cabot's Australian Timber oil in honey teak color?

    It's mostly oil but has some other stuff like iron oxide pigment to protect from sun.  Sand clean first then coat once and recoat evry year or sooner depending on wear and tear.  Stays gummy for a day or two but after that no sticky oily residue like many oil based products.  For retopcoating just clean and sand lightly or not at all and recoat.  Super easy and is holding up well.


    Just another method in the myriad of tips hints and nudges.
  • May 16, 2013 7:02 AM
    Reply # 1294481 on 1291653
    Leave it bare and replace it later.  There is NO free lunch. Years ago a friend left his cap rails bare. I ended up helping him replace a piece that had been damaged beyond easy repair. Upon removing the piece it was so dry and weak I could break it in two over my thigh.  He had been doing the scrub, dry, oil method for 3 - 4 years.

    If you want to not replace your teak you need to varnish it so it will last longer. If you use something like Honey Teak you can recoat once / year or two (depending on where you live and how hard you play with the boat.  Even having to do something every three months, if you are cruising is a PITA. 

    Just my 2 cents.

    Ciao
  • May 16, 2013 8:36 AM
    Reply # 1294566 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    I have seen unfinished cap rails on a w32 that looked like they were beyond the point of restoration, dry with cracks and deep splits along the grain. 

    I have used both Cetol and Epiphanes wood finish, both require no sanding between coats which simplifies the whole process. I think they are equal in durability. 1-2 coats per year to maintain, if you let it go, there's more work later.

    Keep the base coat of pigmented Cetol (especially the dark stuff) thin and finish with several coats of clear gloss, otherwise it masks the grain so much that it looks like plastic wood--might as well just paint it.

    In my opinion, Epiphanes has the best looking finish. If you start with several coats of Wood Finish gloss and finish with 2 coats of Wood Finish Matte it looks just like oiled teak.


  • May 16, 2013 10:27 AM
    Reply # 1294680 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    I'd like to add that where your boat is makes all the difference in on long the product lasts and how many coats you apply.  Here in the Calif. Delta Cetol didn't last anywhere near as long as Crystal or Epiphanes.

    Jim
    Last modified: May 16, 2013 10:30 AM | Deleted user
  • May 17, 2013 4:32 AM
    Reply # 1295233 on 1291653
    I'll second what both Jim Focha and Dave Kall says.

    My WS32 has been in the tropics now for a good eight years now and I just finished having to do extensive repair work to my caprails due to the sun and rain.

    When I first arrived in Guatemala I decided to refinish the rails with Cetol. It lasted less than a year. Tried it again with more coats, same thing. Then I went to varnish but the poor quality of local varnish meant I was having to strip and refinish far too often. So I decided just to leave them bare. Bronze should be green and teak should be gray, right?

    After just a couple years I began noticing more leaks, joints between sections getting wider, splits began in the 'S' pieces at the bow, etc.. Just a gradual deterioration overall.

    When I decided to finally pull the caprails and rebed them I discovered the wood had simply rotted underneath on a couple joints where it had shrunk from the old bedding (which was causing the leaks).  Teak in Guatemala really poor quality. Fortunately I was able to salvage enough 'old growth' Burmese teak of a useable size from a 'derelict' boat to scarf new wood where it was needed.  I also was able to purchase used but serviceable 'S' pieces from another Westsailor.  Before replacing the caprails I coated the underside with epoxy resin.

    I've found a local source for Petit Flagship varnish which I've been using and am very happy with (so far). It's holding up exceptionally well, especially so on the inboard items under my awning.

    Once I finish varnishing the caprails I plan to cover them with strips of commercial tarp material clipped in place with 1" wide sections of (split) PVC tubing. I'm also in the process of having Sunbrella covers made for anything that needs varnishing I don't already have covered (including my bowsprit platform). I really am tired of dicking with varnishing everything every 6 months but leaving the teak bare is not an option anymore.

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