How to stop the sweating

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  • May 01, 2013 7:40 AM
    Reply # 1282904 on 1176805
    Don't give up on ventilation.  An active solar powered fan could do much more than tons of insulation.  I just bought a new one online for $80.  Google for solar fans rv boat.  

    I have a four inch hole in the v berth hatch cover to mount the fan.  It exhausts.  A second fan further aft and blowing in, would create a cross current of fresh air.  
  • May 02, 2013 5:38 AM
    Reply # 1283678 on 1176805

    Dick, you have made a great point.  Although insulation of some sort will help, the installation of cross ventilation is probably the "secret sauce".  I recently spoke to the owner of a Catalina 27 which had been put up for the winter here in the NE.  After only 5 months of storage with a shrink wrap cover, her boat was infested with mold and mildew.  After looking at her boat, I noticed she had no ventilation save for a slot or two in the companionway boards!

    We stored our previous boat, a Pearson Vanguard, for 20 winters in the same conditions with the same type of shrink-wrap cover.  However, our boat NEVER had any mold or mildew.  Yes, we were fastidious about cleaning, but the real difference was the ventilation we installed.  This ventilation worked even during the winter storage months under the shrink-wrap..

    On our WS42, Harmony, which we store here in the NE, we used a custom canvas cover which breathes.  I also made sure that the boat had ventilation.  Yes, the boat is still under construction, but we had no mold or mildew.

    Now, the sweating bulwarks are still a challenge, but a little radiant barrier insulation coupled with good air circulation should minimize the challenge.  We have seven 4 inch dorade cowl vents, but our plans are to install solar vents in the hatches to provide a pull-through air flow.  We will keep Harmony on a mooring which does facilitate air flow from bow to stern.

    As I mentioned earlier, we have not experienced mold or mildew on our prior boats even under heavy humidity.  Our Pearson was not insulated, but had sufficient ventilation.

    Doug

  • November 24, 2013 8:55 AM
    Reply # 1445092 on 1176805
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I just opened up the stbd side teak sealings (?) because after the first heavy rain this year, the foam cushion was very wet.  (dried in the sun with Febreze applied to both sides).

    I had though that the stancion bolts were allowing water into the area.  Looking closer on the newly painted area and with the insulation in place - no sign of running water was found. 

    I noticed that the corner of one area was dark and when I drilled a hole through the fiberglass cloth - water poured out from the void behind the verticle "stud".

    Link to the album  these photos start about 1/2 through album.

    Photo

    I noticed that the top of the "stud" was away from the inner hull and that a pocket was formed between the wood/fiberglass and the inner hull.

    Photo

    I removed the wood above the top most screen hole and used Life culk to fill the void. 

    Photo

    I also removed and resealed the one screw that lines up with the wood "stud" and secures the rub rail.  I am not sure the screw was the cause as the screw was bright and didn't show signs of water.

     

    Photo

    Photo

    I've left the area open in the hopes that the next heavy rain will leak but if it does - I hope to spot the exact area that is leaking.

    I also found that the smaller pieces of the foil/insulation was falling away from the inner hull - and the larger pieces was firmly secured for the most part.  I also didn't notice any sign of condensation on the foil - except below the exposed bolts way up high in the bulworks cavity.

    I also have noticed that if you can apply a good pressure to the self stick foam that it will stay in place but hard to reach area - tended to fall off.

    Last modified: November 24, 2013 9:10 AM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • November 25, 2013 10:14 AM
    Reply # 1445909 on 1176805
    Deleted user
    Hi

    Just an observation, I have been removing insulation from my boat because between the insulation and hull there was a lot of mold and mildew. Insulation was 1/2 inch white closed cell foam. Some of the foam was somewhat clued in to the hull but most were just pushed in without the clue. The clued ones had less mold but the pushed in ones had really bad molding behind them. I guess if you are putting in insulation it needs to be clued air tight to hull. 

    Just a little off topic, has anyone used dehumidifier in boat? I have been thinking putting one in for the winter. I am worried if it makes the the inside too dry and trim and wood start to crack.
    Last modified: November 25, 2013 10:15 AM | Deleted user
  • November 25, 2013 11:01 AM
    Reply # 1445971 on 1445909
    Deleted user
    Pasi Kimpimaki wrote:Hi

    Just an observation, I have been removing insulation from my boat because between the insulation and hull there was a lot of mold and mildew. Insulation was 1/2 inch white closed cell foam. Some of the foam was somewhat clued in to the hull but most were just pushed in without the clue. The clued ones had less mold but the pushed in ones had really bad molding behind them. I guess if you are putting in insulation it needs to be clued air tight to hull. 

    Just a little off topic, has anyone used dehumidifier in boat? I have been thinking putting one in for the winter. I am worried if it makes the the inside too dry and trim and wood start to crack.

    Hi,

    I use a dehumidifier and a small electric heater.  Both have built in fans.  The dehumidifier drains by gravity to the bilge and the bilge is on auto so it pumps the accumulated water overboard.

    Cracking can occur.   I have had to repair a few areas which after drying cracked.  These areas seem to have had the common theme of some type of moisture accumulation either from worn out bedding compound, condensation accumulation, etc.  After making repairs to prevent moisture ingress and then drying the boat out I found these were the areas to crack.  But it was a good time to repair those affected wood areas.
  • November 26, 2013 8:01 AM
    Reply # 1446686 on 1176805
    Deleted user
    Dick is correct about ventilation.

    We liveboard in Olympia WA and here I sit this morning in freezing temperatures with our boat half insulated (in between projects) and we have 0 condensation.

    Our port windows are dry. Our births are dry. We have no insulation in the bullwards. So here is what we have done so far -

    1.Installed a high CFM bilge fan and run it almost all the time - its a tad noisy

    2. A computer fan placed over the wood stove to push the hot (dry) air around


    3. A expensive overpriced Turbo fan in the cabin mounted aft on the bulkhead keeps the air moving.


    4. During the day and sometime night we open the forward hatch just a little to keep things flowing - we have dipped into the 20s so its optional.

    5. Our companion hatch we open about 1" all the time even at night.


    I cant imagine what the boat will feel like when we insulate the bullwards and hull but for now this works pretty good. 
  • August 24, 2014 12:18 PM
    Reply # 3084688 on 1176805
    Deleted user

    From one deleted user to another deleted user in Olympia, Washington (from Mike to Mike):

    The best thing to deal with condensation is to move to the tropics and keep the ventilation at a maximum. Problem: One still has to deal with mold, bu that is manageable. We had to move Polaris (W32) in Olympia Harbor from Fiddlehead Marina to what is now Swantown because Fiddlehead was being dredged and we spent then a winter in the late 1980s. The advantage at Fiddlehead and being in the flow of the drain of the Olympia "water"treatment plant (no, the odor was not noticeable as there are strict regulations as to the quality of the effluent). In the winter the water was warmer there and did not cause the condensation that we experienced then at Swantown Marina. At that time Swantown (managed by Almar who tried to keep from losing money because the difficult competitive neighbors) was providing unlimited electricity for an added $10/mo fee, a real bargain. We ran two heaters in the boat and covered every exposed area to avoid our breath from touching the hull, in Pac NW near freezing temps. It was uncomfortable with the draft from several fans. My former wife wanted a place where she could meditate undisturbed and she put up with this. One of the reasons I hauled Polaris out is the insulation issue (not the ex-wife). I read that the nuclear submarines are insulated with Ensolite closed cell foam. I got a 3/4"sheet and glued it to the overhead in the forepeak after the time the ex was done meditating in the winter. The Ensolite did not stick well (what did the Navy use as a bonding agent?), and then I added a sheet of Formica and bolted that sandwich to the overhead. That helped. I have a difficult time removing the ceiling (for you landlubbers that are the sidewalls) as the brass wood screws strip the Phillips drive indentation. I would like to remove the ceiling strips to add closed cell foam, paint over that stuff to at least have a sort of barrier that excludes the air from the hull and does not build up moisture. The other problem will be osmosis of the moisture into the foam. I hope that the summer heat will undo this to a degree.

    I lived aboard in Los Angeles for several years and never had moisture problems. Polaris has been out of the water for two decades now, and since I have some time I can deal with the old problems better since she sits in my front yard and I am actually making good progress with getting her ready.

    Mike Zorn.

     

    Last modified: September 03, 2014 8:07 PM | Deleted user
  • September 03, 2014 8:33 PM
    Reply # 3091897 on 1176805
    Deleted user

    An additional thought:

    The bulwark space is a problem. I am planning on stuffing closed cell foam to stop the air circulation. I thought maybe... fill it up with foam out of a can, but then there is a problem with removing it. The main issue is to stop all airflow and the foam used in life preservers should be perfect. Condensation runs down with the gravity so the top area is most important. I am removing the ceiling strips in the forepeak now (the overhead is Ensolite foam), but I will not use the adhesive foam strips with the reflective Mylar backing. I think that may be still too thin. I am wondering if a honeycomb material glued onto the hull and covered up airtight are effective, someone in the aircraft industry should know  . Air is a great insulator, fiberglass batts are used in residential insulation. The honeycomb partitions are effective barriers to airflow. How are the freezers insulated? The best is the thermos bottle with a vacuum inside - no thermal conductor there. Of course the Thermos method would be unreasonable in a boat.

    Otherwise stop breathing!

    I will shut up for now!

    Mike Z

    P.S. (next day)

    Where can I find Armaflex foam? How well does it stick? What adhesive will work with it? The previous page (2) of this thread has an impressive shot of the foam installation.

    Btw., I tried to pull the Ensolite off the overhead (ceiling in nautical terms is the cover on the walls) to get to the ceiling strips to be able to reach into the bulwark space when I stuff it with closed cell foam. I have to figure something out, as the Ensolite/Formica sandwich sticks quite well after all. MZ

     

    Last modified: September 07, 2014 3:44 PM | Deleted user
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