Forestay and jib luff tension

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  • February 07, 2011 7:04 AM
    Message # 517421
    Deleted user
    Went sailing last Saturday in about 25 knots of wind. Started out with yankee and one reef in the main, but the rail was in the water so put another reef in the main.
    We were not able to go very fast, about 5.5 to 6 knots on a beam reach and slightly less at about 60 degrees of apparent wind.
    A boat that was out took some pictures, that show a bow in the headstay and that the jib luff was not near tight enough.
    So my question is: how much does this affect boatspeed? I also have too much weight in the stern so need to address this as well..



     



    Last modified: February 07, 2011 7:04 AM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • February 08, 2011 7:28 AM
    Reply # 518113 on 517421
    Deleted user
    Gary Burton wrote: Went sailing last Saturday in about 25 knots of wind. Started out with yankee and one reef in the main, but the rail was in the water so put another reef in the main.
    We were not able to go very fast, about 5.5 to 6 knots on a beam reach and slightly less at about 60 degrees of apparent wind.
    A boat that was out took some pictures that I will link to, that show a bow in the headstay and that the jib luff was not near tight enough.
    So my question is: how much does this affect boatspeed? I also have too much weight in the stern so need to address this as well..







    Can't answer your questions, Gary, but Man! the boat looks great out there.
    -Steve
  • February 08, 2011 6:44 AM
    Reply # 518127 on 518113
    Deleted user
    Stephen Yoder wrote:
    Gary Burton wrote: Went sailing last Saturday in about 25 knots of wind. Started out with yankee and one reef in the main, but the rail was in the water so put another reef in the main.
    We were not able to go very fast, about 5.5 to 6 knots on a beam reach and slightly less at about 60 degrees of apparent wind.
    A boat that was out took some pictures that I will link to, that show a bow in the headstay and that the jib luff was not near tight enough.
    So my question is: how much does this affect boatspeed? I also have too much weight in the stern so need to address this as well..







    Can't answer your questions, Gary, but Man! the boat looks great out there.
    -Steve
    Thanks Steve. 
  • February 09, 2011 8:34 AM
    Reply # 518977 on 517421
    Deleted user
    For any wanting to comment but afraid to hurt my feelings - be brutal! I can handle it :)

  • February 10, 2011 10:53 AM
    Reply # 519856 on 517421
    Gary,
    I would recommend getting hold of Dave King, our resident expert in performance of the Westsail boats, and get some feedback from him.
  • February 10, 2011 12:15 PM
    Reply # 519904 on 517421
    Deleted user
    Yeah - thanks Bud.
    I hate to keep bugging Dave..... if you're out there Dave and would like to weigh in I'm sure many of us will benefit from your input.
    Thanks in advance!
    Last modified: February 10, 2011 12:15 PM | Deleted user
  • February 10, 2011 12:24 PM
    Reply # 519909 on 517421
    Deleted user
    After thinking about this, the weight in the stern might be the biggest factor. Without anyone on the boat the boat is about an inch low at the stern and and inch high at the bow. Add two adults in the 220 lbs range and now we are doing a wheelie. Two kids on the rail don't help much. Of course the loose luff and sloppy headstay don't help.
    Will tighten headstay, tension jib luff correctly and move some weight and report back.
    Another thing - when the stern goes down the mast also angles back not helping much either.
  • February 10, 2011 11:00 PM
    Reply # 520193 on 517421

    I wanted to say something funny but after, just now, seeing the photos of Elizabeth Ann under sail, I could not think of anything humorous.  This is what it looks like to me.  (please put a rag in your mouth and bite hard while reading)  Why is the Staysail not up?  Why is the Yankee up in 25k when the smaller jib would work better?  PLEASE remember those immortal words of Kern Ferguson, "Luff length is performance.  Foot length is Crew abuse"  The Staysail has another 30 feet of luff.  Yes, your Yankee luff is way too loose and your Headstay also.  The sheet is too tight. The result is a big "bag" that is just pulling you sideways.  The smaller, working Jib, is almost all luff.    The Mainsail luff is too loose also and the sheet too tight - same as the Yankee.  Also the Main outhaul, even when reefed, should be tighter.  You need to flatten your sails better but by using foot tension instead of sheet tension.  Next time out, try the Staysail with or without the Yankee.  In 25k of wind a W-32 should easily be able to do 7.3k and keep the rail out of the water.  If just sailing for fun, I would have a double reefed Main, reefed Staysail, and small Jib, maybe rolled up a bit.  I'd be doing 7.4k.  More sail could be carried but with very little gain and less comfort.

    5.5k in 25k of wind is Pathetic.  Is your knotmeter accurate?  What kind of boat took the pictures?  Re-tune, re-trim, and ask for another photo shoot.  And get back to us.

    Anonymous,   but faster.

  • February 11, 2011 6:39 AM
    Reply # 520312 on 517421
    Deleted user

    Hi Gary

    I hope Dave doesn't mind being quoted. Below is some excellent advice the he posted in the old forum. It has been my experience that in winds in excess of 20-25 knots, the combination of reefed main and staysail makes for a good compromise between boat speed and crew comfort / heel. Carrying too much sail forward under those conditions seems to be a significant detriment to the performance of a Westsail 32. I try to minmize the heel as much as possible for the conditions and then make minor adjustments for boat speed using that as my starting point.

    1. O-8 kn. Full sail. Drifter or Genoa or spinnaker or whatever.
    2. 8-15 kn. Full working sail. Usually nothing bigger than a Yankee.
    3. Above 15 kn.
    1st. reef in Main.
    2nd. douse or reduce jib.
    3rd. 2nd reef in Main
    4th. douse any remaining jib.
    5th. douse the main.
    6th. staysail alone
    7th. storm sails as necessary.
    Storm jib goes on the inner stay.
    Notice that the staysail is the better choice to leave up forward until the end. Saraband's staysail is reefable so I also have that option as desired. We have sailed in 50 knots under just the reefed staysail although the better choice at that time would be storm jib and/or trysail.

  • February 11, 2011 6:57 AM
    Reply # 520314 on 517421
    Deleted user
    Yowza. I have removed the piece of leather from my mouth.
    Thanks for the assessment Dave! I don't have a good reason why the yankee was up and not the staysail. Perhaps subconsciously I was protecting my new staysail... that yankee cost $100.

    The boat that took the pictures was a trawler so don't worry, the skipper was a clueless as me when it comes to trim and boat speed! There were not any other sailboats out. 
    I have not checked my knotmeter and was not watching the GPS... so will check and compare next time.
    The luff on the staysail will be shorter than the yankee though...is it a relative thing when compared to the foot length? 
    I guess you mean the staysail adds 30' of luff when used with the yankee



    Last modified: February 11, 2011 6:57 AM | Deleted user
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