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Bolting down cockpit sole

  • August 08, 2013 7:48 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1361668 on 1359145
    Anonymous member
    I'm glad it will help you, Jim. I purchased several different types of DeStaCo clamps, not sure which would work best. The one I finally ended up using was the "#207 U". They make these in stainless (at a higher price, of course), but mine were only galvanized. I did this because it would have been a little costly to order 4 of each type in SS, just to experiment. I also found them used on eBay, which helped. I don't even recall what I paid for them, but it looks like they are selling for around $15 each on eBay now (including shipping).

    My guess would be that your current arrangement might be more water-tight, simply because the 14 fasteners would nullify any effect caused by flex in the floor. But mine doesn't leak even in a "toad stranger" (very heavy rain), as long as I have them clamped down.

    If you would like to discuss any aspects of the installation, you're welcome to call. Send me an email, and I'll give you my number. If you do the mods to lift out the floor and make the step and sub-floors, you'll find that getting in and out of your engine room will become as easy as opening a door, walking down two steps, and sitting in front of your engine. It makes monitoring the batteries a piece of cake!

    If you have four 6-Volt  deep cycle batteries in the conventional location, you likely have two of them under the cabinet aft of the galley sink. These are always a bear to get to. So, I made a false floor in this cabinet to make it easier to get two. I put a a shelf in mine at half-height. But still, all I have to do is remove a few things from the bottom of the cabinet, lift out the floor and I have easy access to the fill caps. I should mention that I created battery boxes that located these two batteries at a slight angle that would maximize access. It now takes less than five minutes to check and fill all four (which means it will actually get done on a regular basis).

    With the false floor out, I can see 4 of the caps easily and use a mirror to see into the others. If I removed the shelf (which comes out easily) I can see all 6 caps. I know there's a post on here somewhere about that, but I can't seem to find it in a search, so here's another.






  • August 09, 2013 6:59 PM
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    Reply # 1362252 on 1359145
    Deleted user
    Jack,
    my new Trojans are sitting 2 on each side.
    You gave me the ideas I was looking for.
    I will be doing the same.
    Thanks so much.
  • August 10, 2013 5:54 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1362465 on 1359145
    Anonymous member
    Great, Carl. From a weight perspective, it would have been my preference to split them into two pairs on alternate sides as well. In my engine room, however, it seemed easier to gain access to the batteries with all four placed on the Port side. 

    I was a bit concerned about the electrical panel and all its wiring being completely open to the engine room. (I think that was a standard "feature", but I'm not certain.) My fear was that the off-gassing during charging would be corrosive to the already precarious panel and electrical connections. I had found quite a few aluminum crimp connectors throughout the boat and these would have disintegrated in short time. The previous bank of batteries in that space were sealed GEL type, so less of a concern for off-gassing.

    In the end, I rewired absolutely everything on my boat, removing the old switches and wires, closing off the cabinet and converting all of it to an electrical center. Since the switches and all wires  now inside of the cabinet, the concern for off-gassing would have been virtually eliminated. 

    I did, however, move the raw water strainer from horizontal mounting position (attached to the seacock) to the back of the electrical cabinet, several inches above waterline. This way, should the glass ever break, it cannot flood the boat. This was just one more thing in the way for mounting batteries on the Stbd side. (It's incredible how many things affect every other thing in varying degrees.)



    Previous starting batteries and electrical panel. Scary, huh?


    Current view of closed off panel. This photo was taken before I was finished,
     which explains why not all the wires are connected and bundled, and why 
    there are no clamps on the cockpit drain hose, etc. There are currently no
     longer wires in the engine room that do not belong in the engine room.


    Good luck with your access panel, Carl. You have my number... feel free to call if you have any questions.

    Jack

  • August 10, 2013 6:01 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1362692 on 1359145
    Deleted user
    Jack,
    My electrical is in fairly decent shape and I improved it quite a bit since owning the boat.
    I think I will bring everything inside the cabinet someday but for now its fine.
    thanks for the pictures.
  • August 11, 2013 9:26 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1363183 on 1359145
    Deleted user

    Jack thanks for the offer to help.  Just having the part name/number and the idea is more than enough.  We would love to get it done but it looks like it will have to wait as we need to be ready in a few weeks.  The boat will be ready but the house projects may deter us this year.  If so we'll get it done this winter.  I also think your method of securing the floor hatch would be more water tight. Even with gaskets and rubber washers we still sometimes some small leaks trough some of the bolts.  The photo shows the SS frame that the floor bolts to.

    Also note the fuse block right next to the batteries in the upper right, two more batteries are to the right but aren't in the photo.  The fuses are for the solar and have been there five years with no sign of corrosion.  Off gassing should never be a problem, if it is the batteries are failing or are overcharging.

    Jim
  • August 12, 2013 5:18 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1363363 on 1359145
    Anonymous member
    Jim,

    The forum editor downsizes images so much that it's difficult for me to tell for certain from your photo, but it appears to me as follows:

    • Your engine compartment has a liner (mine does not)
    • Your photo was taken looking from the cabin, looking aft
    • The two most visible batteries sit over the shaft
    • The two forward batteries sit on the Port side
    • All 4 batteries are covered and strapped down well
    • All 4 are blocked to prevent them from sliding
    • Your fuse block appears to be covered and not directly above battery
    I can't imagine that you would have any problems whatsoever.  My comment regarding a possible concern for contact corrosion was in reference to Carl placing two batteries on the Fwd Stbd side and directly beneath the open switch panel. Carl's photos indicate that his current situation is far better than mine was, even though the panel and some of the wiring is still exposed. Your panel may not even be open at all, or have any wiring exposed (I can't tell from this photo). Additionally, my comment was directed primarily to the risk of corrosion to aluminum connectors, should they exist... that's where I had problems with my solar panels overcharging the batteries. (The connector in question was on the wire that sensed battery voltage.)

    I would have loved to have a nice, clean, fiberglass liner in my engine room. But I did not, and I simply worked with what I had available.  I console myself knowing that, without a liner, it's likely that I have easier access to my PSS dripless shaft seal and a bit more usable space for storage. Clearly, there is a tradeoff for everything in boats... just as in life.

    My previous layout had all four batteries in roughly the same position as yours are now. But I moved them when I was forced to completely rebuild my engine room. The PO had limited protection for the batteries and virtually no means to even keep two of them in place. In addition, there were leaks under the caprail, allowing water to seep in and stand on the battery shelves. The fresh water, combined with the battery acid, had completely disintegrated the shelves. While doing this rebuild I decided to move the aft two batteries forward to the area beneath the galley cabinet, as I have read that the W32 does not like excessive weight forward or aft. I will probably never know if this helped the ride itself, as I had never sailed the boat prior to the redesign, and therefore have nothing with which to compare.

    In summary, your engine room looks great! And I would agree that you have no concerns. While you certainly don't need my approval, suffice to say that I'm impressed by the details such as your strong battery tie-downs. Two of my batteries were once fastened with 3/4" x 1/16" plastic strapping that had already rotted off. I don't know what kept them from sliding off the shelf. These straps were replaced with very heavy nylon webbing (heavier than seat belt material, but narrower). I suspect it gives me equal security to your bolted tie-downs, but I wanted to leave the tops off the cases to more easily monitor the battery fluid and potential corrosion around the cables, without having to remove the covers. I'm not sure which is the more ideal solution, but I'm sure both are considerably better the vast majority that you'll see.

    Thank you for sharing. It always amazes me how many different solutions one finds in viewing different boats of the same make/model.

    Jack
  • August 13, 2013 1:45 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1364501 on 1359145
    Deleted user
    Aaron Norlund  (W32 Asa Marie) posted a very simple solution with one snap shackle to release from a pad-eye attached to the center of the floor.

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E8hwbPLqXiA/SXFcSon-48I/AAAAAAAAAfc/oboICdoWM_4/w343-h516-no/DSC_0481.JPG
  • August 13, 2013 7:03 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1364677 on 1359145
    Deleted user
    Has anyone cut the hatch in half? It seems it would be easier to handle as they are really heavy. I would think it could be made waterproof.
  • August 13, 2013 10:25 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1364752 on 1359145
    Anonymous member
    James,

    I know Werner Hamp did this on Rhapsody and made a post about his split hatch conversion on Feb 04, 2012. At the time of his post, he was not able to completely waterproof the seam, though he may have perfected it since and just not reported.

    NOTE: The "captive SS nut plates" he mentions as being available at Ace Hardware may be diffiulut to find, but a similar (and more easily found) solution would be "SS T-nuts". As others have mentioned, this does not give you a quick way to fasten and remove the floor, but if you only plan to do so occasionally to work on the engine, it would be a good fastening solution. The reason I used De Sta Co clamps was because I wanted a way to quickly access the compartment, in order to use it for storage, etc. I did think that Aaron's solution was worthy of consideration as well. 

    Jack

    Last modified: August 13, 2013 10:33 PM | Anonymous member
  • August 14, 2013 6:48 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1364940 on 1364752
    Anonymous member
    WTF? I don't think I've seen as many complicated and/or overly expensive approaches to solving a problem.  Especially when they result in the inability to quickly access the engine compartment and/or require crawling over the top of a (hot?) engine to operate. 

    One time my engine quit due to rough seas stirring up algae in the tanks.  With a rocky beach about 1/2 mi leeward (I could hear the surf crashing on shore) I would have been in deep doo doo if I were unable to quickly access my Racor filter.  Even if I just dropped the anchor (in 80 ft of water) to buy time I'd hate to think of having to remove the companionway steps and crawling into the engine compartment just to be able to release the hatch while being tossed around like I was that day. And then what?  What do you do with a 'loose' hatch?

    Again, I would highly recommend simply hinging the hatch down one side (opposite the throttle) and securing it on the opposite via flush mounted locking lift latches.  It's simple & cheap and it takes me about 5 sec to unlock the two latches and swing the hatch up out of the way exposing the entire opening.  And if water is coming on board, another 5 sec to close & re-secure it.

    K.I.S.S.  Because sometimes minutes count.
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