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Up grading the head -

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  • June 26, 2011 12:46 PM
    Quote
    Message # 631032
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Bud:

    I use a portapotty on Pygmalion and now that Pam is sailing with me (she found a solution to motion sickness) - the 6 gallon tank is looking rather small.

    Since there are 2 poly water tanks in the bilge - would the forward tank be a good holding tank -- or if the wrong material - the area be a good area to put add a holding tank?  I'm thinking that if the boat ever cruises that a water maker would be added to fill the aft tank with fresh water.

    I guess the tank under the foward berth is OK but I believe that the size is limited to 24 gallons.

    To keep the costs down for the owner - I was thinking of plumbing in a way to move the contents of the 6 gallon tank to the holding tank.

    I guess I'm not liking the idea of cruising from one pump out station to another in the SF bay area.

    Jay

     

    Last modified: June 26, 2011 12:47 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • June 26, 2011 9:14 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 631355 on 631032
    Anonymous
    I have one of Bud's eighteen-gallon holding tanks mounted under the port vee-berth -- should handle the waste for a couple for several days, and it's gravity drained, so no macerator is needed.
  • June 28, 2011 11:09 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 633670 on 631032
    Deleted user
    Jay Bietz wrote:

    Hi Bud:

    I use a portapotty on Pygmalion and now that Pam is sailing with me (she found a solution to motion sickness) - the 6 gallon tank is looking rather small.

    Since there are 2 poly water tanks in the bilge - would the forward tank be a good holding tank -- or if the wrong material - the area be a good area to put add a holding tank?  I'm thinking that if the boat ever cruises that a water maker would be added to fill the aft tank with fresh water.

    I guess the tank under the foward berth is OK but I believe that the size is limited to 24 gallons.

    To keep the costs down for the owner - I was thinking of plumbing in a way to move the contents of the 6 gallon tank to the holding tank.

    I guess I'm not liking the idea of cruising from one pump out station to another in the SF bay area.

    Jay

     


    Jay:
    Not sure on the use of a water tank for holding (once you go there there is no reversing the decision) a second note: is that Bud's tanks are long 40+ inches and have a flat bottoms sooooooooooo you may have a large thin layer of (plant growing stuff) on the bottom of the tank that slowly gets a bit thicker with use. Remember there is less motion under the floor boards. I have a custom head area; 20 gal tank with a Flat bottom, and I do notice this build up occurs even with more motion. Sad to say but I use the hose at the pump out to fill the tank through the head and then pump out the tank a couple more time. Kind of gets it +/-. a 6 gal should get 1 to 2 days use for 2 (just cutback on the beer and big dinners) The biggest help for a bay cruiser could be to use fresh water for the flush = less water and less smell.

    Hope it all works through:) Norm
    Last modified: June 28, 2011 11:10 AM | Deleted user
  • June 28, 2011 7:22 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 634031 on 631032
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Norm and Terry:  Maybe better to leave the fresh water alone and use it for flushing -- ie seperate the two tanks. 

    Norm: You are saying that a flat bottomed tank is a problem to pump clear -- so I'm guessing something with a sloped bottom would be best. 

    Has anyone used a fresh water connect while  you use the vacuum hose to empty the tank?

    I'd also love to fit a larger tank into the space in the V berth!!

    Jay 
  • July 01, 2011 9:34 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 640600 on 634031
    Deleted user
    Jay Bietz wrote:

    Norm and Terry:  Maybe better to leave the fresh water alone and use it for flushing -- ie seperate the two tanks. 

    Norm: You are saying that a flat bottomed tank is a problem to pump clear -- so I'm guessing something with a sloped bottom would be best. 

    Has anyone used a fresh water connect while  you use the vacuum hose to empty the tank?

    I'd also love to fit a larger tank into the space in the V berth!!

    Jay 

    Jay :
    The flat bottom is only an issue when you get bigger (Kind of like the bilge under the water tanks is hard to clean as it is flat).  I am using the pump out from above (dip tube pickup) as I never ever want to have the brown stuff leak out of the tank.  

    Also one note: if the tank is full, you do notice the weight change in the boat 20gal * 10#/gal = one fat guy on the port side up front.  

    Oh for that fresh water connection, it is pretty easy to fill the head with the dock water hose and spray nozzle and pump it out to the holding tank and out through the pump out. 

    The fresh water connection was talking about was for the normal flush so that the salt water does not ferment in the lines or the tank. 


    Last modified: July 01, 2011 9:36 AM | Deleted user
  • August 15, 2011 9:56 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 677303 on 631032
    Deleted user
    Just on principle, having a black water tank and a potable water tank side-by-side is asking for trouble.  If you must have a wet toilet, at least keep the black water tank under the vee berth well away from drinking water.  Plus, a flat bottom tank (as in the polytanks in the bilge) does not drain solids well and you will never be able to completely empty it.  Why not invest in a composting toilet instead?
  • August 16, 2011 7:15 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 677465 on 677303
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Ralph Weiland wrote:Just on principle, having a black water tank and a potable water tank side-by-side is asking for trouble.  If you must have a wet toilet, at least keep the black water tank under the vee berth well away from drinking water.  Plus, a flat bottom tank (as in the polytanks in the bilge) does not drain solids well and you will never be able to completely empty it.  Why not invest in a composting toilet instead?


    Ralph: 

    Holding tanks et al are trouble and side by side -- you are right - I can see/smell the issues already!!

    On the composting toilet - I'll assume you have one?  isn't there a fan that blows all the time?  doesn't this have an odor?

    Jay
  • August 16, 2011 6:52 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 677902 on 631032
    Deleted user

    Hi Jay,

    Stephen and Lulu Yoder have written with great detail and humor about their composting head on their blog, Yoders Afloat. From what they and others have written about their experience, I am convinced this is the way to go and is high on my list of future modifications. Rhapsody has never had a holding tank installed relying instead on a Lectra-San system. This is no longer a viable treatment system in many areas where I sail so composting toilet it will have to be. Any reduction or conversion of the potable water capacity, as you have been considering as a possible solution, will reduce your cruising endurance considerably as it seems that this resource is the most limiting besides the endurance of the crew.

    Werner

    http://yodersafloat.blogspot.com/2010/11/11142010-compost.html

    Last modified: August 16, 2011 7:08 PM | Deleted user
  • August 18, 2011 6:23 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 679061 on 631032
    Anonymous member
    Sorry, I must be dense.  I read the Yoder's blog and I still don't get it.  

    They talk about emptying the liquid bucket and the solid bucket "when convenient"   How does that meet the various state requirements for pump outs?  None of the state laws I've seen make any distinction between liquid and solid waste, so I don't see how separating the two helps with legal requirements, or why it is better than a non-separated classical porta-potti with a removable cartridge. 

    Marinas don't allow you to dump in their toilets.  Where do you legally dump those buckets, and how often?  On my boat, we generate about 2 gallons of black water per day.

    I suspect that the answers to my questions relate to location and to the full time / part time uses of the boat.  Different solutions for different people.   

    You may be interested in black water handling here in the East.

    The latest twist in state laws is North Carolina.  They now require you to carry a log showing where and when you pumped out and how much you paid.  I'm not sure if you must also have receipts.  If boarded by a sheriff, you must show that log.  In other words, the burden of proof that you dumped legally is on the boater. If you dump your buckets on shore I don't know how you'll convince that deputy sheriff.

    At several of the larger anchorages here in the east, they now have pump-out boats that come weekly and pump-out all the boats in the harbor.  You do not need to be on board when they come.  That's a very agreeable solution.   If you have buckets, or a porta-pottie cartridge, you must leave them up on deck so that the pump-out boat can access it. Your buckets must also be large enough to hold a week's solid plus liquid.  You can see why holding tanks are a preferred solution in those places.

    In Fort Lauderdale, they require all boats in slips to be attached to a full-time shore-based pump out all the time. That's expensive but effective.  I don't know if you could make that work with buckets.

    New York State has a ridiculous law that I don't know how to comply with.  They require that all boats be permanently modified so that dumping overboard is impossible.   A Y valve is not sufficient.  But when we sail out of NY harbor to go to sea we must switch the Y valve to dump overboard because there are no pump outs at sea, duh. There are also no pump outs in The Bahamas.  So what does "permanently" mean?  I have a Y valve with a steel cable through the handle and a padlock on the cable.  I've never been boarded in NY, but in other states, that seems to satisfy them.  I don't know how buckets or porta-potties are treated in NY law.

  • August 18, 2011 8:55 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 679184 on 631032
    Deleted user
    Some help:

    The composting head (Which I do not have)  works at making the Black solids into Dirt!, if not, it is not working. The best way of disposing of the finished compost is to find a flower garden to dump it into, the flowers will grow and grow (There should be NO smell whatsoever and you can touch it with your hands (it is dirt)!)   Please do not put it on food plants, as there is a very remote possibility pathogens could make it through the plant into the fruit (Unlikely, but why do something that could harm some one) also please wash your hands after touching any dirt composted or otherwise.  

    As for the liquid; the same plants would love the watering.  Best way to see this for your self is to rent (Watch) the dvd  "The worlds fastest indian"  and check out the lemon tree, it is also a pretty good move. If your flower garden is only as big as a wine barrel, adding something to assist the urea conversion into a salt would be helpful.

    For the record, I have a 20Gal mixed solids holding tank in the head compartment with a y-valve and in CA the pumpouts are still free+/-  the y is locked when I am not more than 10 miles off. 

    Composting is a good direction, and in 10 or 20 years when my head gives out I will likely go there, but for now the old fashion holding tank works for me. Also in a marina I never use the head on the boat, I always! use the ones on shore.

    Norm   
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