Up grading the head -

  • August 18, 2011 11:56 AM
    Reply # 679303 on 631032
    Deleted user

    Hi Dick, I grew up sailing, as you did, in the days before holding tanks and Y-valves, where heads flushed directly into the water. OK at sea, but a problem in congested waters. Holding tanks and Y-valves were a quick fix, clumsy add-on, yet acceptable solution. I've never liked the holding tank idea and its ever-present odor so I was open to a better idea and I think the composting head is an improvement. It is classified as a self-contained (type II) head by the US coast guard.

    Keeping the solids and liquids separate eliminates the nasty odor (NASA separates on the space station and shuttle). Since urine is sterile it really can be dumped anywhere. We usually try to empty the 2gal container (discreetly carried in a canvaas bag) into shore based tiolets when available. The "solids", which have a not-so-disagreeable organic peatmossy odor, can be emptied into a garbage bag and put in a dumpster, just like kitty litter, but way less smelly. ("must be some big cats on that boat"). If one is cruising a wilderness coastal area (away from dumpsters, toilets,  pump-outs or "off-shore" facilities) one could bury composted solid contents on land. I suppose you could dump it overboard when offshore for extended periods. I think I would just use the bucket & chuck-it method in that case. This is where I think the traditional head would be preferable.

    I was sold on the idea by a couple who converted several years ago. They cruise for 6 straight weeks every summer, far from pump-out facilities on the wilderness north shore of Lake Superior and then part-time the rest of the summer in more "civilized" parts of the lake. They empty the solids once per season. I'm sure they use shore facilities when convenient, as anyone with a holding tank might. Testamonials say 2 people can use it daily for 6-8 weeks before having to empty the compost.  That's longer than one can go without pumping out a holding tank. It can last longer if it gets time to decompose between uses, so using shore facilities when available helps. It also can be "freshened" up by adding more petmoss if it gets a lot of use. We had four of us using it daily on a recent four-day sail and the composter was over whelmed and had some odor (usually there is none), although I suspect it was due to someone using about a half roll of paper. One could also empty the composter into a second container to be emptied later--kind of like carrying a holding tank. Once a holding tank is full, that's it until you can pump it out.

    Some other pluses (other than eliminating the odor) is there's no unpleasant head maintainance/rebuilds/uncloggings, frees up storage space, no cost or hassle of pump-outs--you're self sufficient and not restricted in how far you can sail away from the nearest pump-out station.

    I have a plumber friend who sails with me and said if he ever built a new house he would install composting toilets and aviod the expense and problems associated with the plumbing, septic/sewer etc. He's also a gardener, so...

    I know it sounds like I'm a salesman for the company, but I have no connection. It's not perfect but for me the pros outweigh the cons. Simplicity, self suficiency and no odor.

  • August 18, 2011 2:38 PM
    Reply # 679414 on 631032
    Deleted user

    David,

    Thank you for sharing this information. It's always good to hear from someone who has first-hand experience.

    Werner

  • August 19, 2011 10:52 AM
    Reply # 680092 on 631032

    My Natures Head arrived yesterday, fairly straightforward installation, except I wallowed out the screwheads while attempting to install the brackets.

    http://www.natureshead.net/

    I opted for an addtional base to address the issue of full time cruising. While one is in use the other can complete the digestion process secured in the cabinet.

    scott

  • August 20, 2011 8:56 AM
    Reply # 680828 on 631032
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Harry:

    The Natures head looks interesting and there are a couple of pdf's on their sites with more information.  Thanks.

    I'd like to see photo's of your installation - the venting looks to be the hardest part - where and how did you run the tubes and put the vent head - cabin top or outside the boat or.

    Also does the fan run all the time day and night or a few hours per day - seems the vent air would have a smell.

    Jay

  • August 20, 2011 5:25 PM
    Reply # 681087 on 631032

    Jay,

    The fan runs nonstop but it's something like 100 ma. so not a problem. I spoke with the folks at Natures Head and they didn't see a problem with reducing from the 1 1/2 in. line down to 3/4 in. so I plumbed to the existing vent leftover from the holding tank.

    I picked up a 3 cu. ft.bag of peat moss and transferred to thirteen 2 gallon ziplocs( I'm sure the Coast Guard won't be alarmed), roughly 1 1/2 year supply. They take a little more room than the old 6 gal. holding tank but smell alot better.

    scott

     

  • August 20, 2011 5:52 PM
    Reply # 681105 on 631032
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I guess the last thing - is the vent on the cabin deck or mid-ship out board? 

    Power draw sounds very low.  

    Seems the cost and installation between an new head and holding tank system et al and "natural" heads can't be much different and a lot simpler installation for the "natural heads" with fewer thru hulls needed. 

    To all readers - What was the difference between Air Head and Natures Head what was the deciding factor between the two models when you purchased .

     
    We almost have a full article here for the Windblown!!!
    Thanks everyone for their input.
  • August 22, 2011 6:45 AM
    Reply # 681996 on 631032
    Deleted user
    We installed the airhead after talking to a friend who is a full time cruiser that has one, the big difference between the airhead and natures head is that the airhead can have the liquids tank removed without lifting the top on the solids tank and the auger is easier to operate.

    Although we have never had a bug or insect problem others have and the more you have the solids bin open the more likely it is you  will have issues.

    my plan is to eventually plumb the liquid tank with a dip tube and small pump to be able to empty it overboard with out having to remove the tank.

    we get a whole season on the east coat staying on the boat every weekend and a few weeks straight without having to empty the solids tank. When we do empty it we just put a small garbage bag around the solids bin and turn it upside down that's all there is to it takes 3-4 min total.

    you can see how we installed it here http://www.smallcruising.com/?p=47



    -Tim
  • August 22, 2011 6:54 AM
    Reply # 681999 on 631032
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Tim:  Thanks for the first hand report and your site is nice as is the Air Head installation.

    Jay

  • October 06, 2011 2:19 PM
    Reply # 716769 on 631032
    Deleted user

    Dear Bud: Without having to go into the particulars of why I hate convetional marine head systems( crew never respects what goes there) I am looking to install one of the pumpout type porta pottis from Domitec. One issue is storage. Adding a 16 gallon stainless steel tank connected with 11/2 hose gravity fed to this tank would solve the storage issue but would I be able to pump it out thru the Porta potti pump out? Will the stainless tank need a sleeve inside to draw enough suction? I am not clear on the dynamics of the pumpout process. Alan   

  • October 06, 2011 4:01 PM
    Reply # 716835 on 716769
    Anonymous
    Alan Johnson wrote:

    Dear Bud: Without having to go into the particulars of why I hate convetional marine head systems( crew never respects what goes there) I am looking to install one of the pumpout type porta pottis from Domitec. One issue is storage. Adding a 16 gallon stainless steel tank connected with 11/2 hose gravity fed to this tank would solve the storage issue but would I be able to pump it out thru the Porta potti pump out? Will the stainless tank need a sleeve inside to draw enough suction? I am not clear on the dynamics of the pumpout process. Alan   

    I currently have a Dometic porta-potty on my w28.  I can't answer your question, but I wanted to voice my opinion that it is the vilest, most foul, contraption ever devised by man. I would strongly advise against this type of toilet. I'm switching to an airhead composting toilet.
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