Replacing Chain plates cutter rig

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  • May 06, 2015 5:50 PM
    Message # 3334378

    I am considering replacing the chain plates and the bowsprit brackets.  There are no visible cracks or signs of weakness, but I would like to do some extensive cruising without concern.  The hardware on the boat now has circumnavigated and I have been out in 70+ mph winds more than once.  I figure it's bound to happen again.  The bowsprit needs to be replaced and I assume that's a sign the rest isn't far behind.  Should I wait until there's a visible problem and figure it out at that time?

    Has anyone done this with a cutter?  I have been warned that the quality of the stainless 40+ years is nearly impossible to match.  I would love to replace the parts with equal quality so that it doesn't have to be done again for another 40-50 years.  I have noticed that the original stainless bolts and hardware are still rust free without maintenance.  However, marine grade stainless that I put on the boat as recently as 2 years ago is leaving rust stains behind.  You can really tell a difference in the original parts when you remove it with ease and it still appears to be in fine condition.  Once taken apart, I wouldn't consider reusing many of the stainless parts I've added over the last few years.  I think you get the point.

    I would greatly appreciate advice on replacing the chain plates as well as where to purchase quality hardware and fasteners.  Also looking to replace mast fittings and again quality is an issue. 

  • May 07, 2015 6:41 AM
    Reply # 3335088 on 3334378

    The chainplates on our 1976 W42 have been coming off this week and despite looking good except for some minor rust on just a few of the bolt heads, there is some crevice corrosion on the backsides where they were in contact with the caprail and sealant.  The corrosion doesn't look that obvious to the naked eye, but under magnification, it is pretty ugly.  The rust staining on the bolts and chainplates wasn't really an issue after all, but the hidden side was a very significant find for us.  The process of getting chainplates off & on is enough to make you want to fix this for a good long time.    

  • May 07, 2015 10:35 AM
    Reply # 3335493 on 3335088
    Deleted user
    John & Julie Steveley wrote:

    The chainplates on our 1976 W42 have been coming off this week and despite looking good except for some minor rust on just a few of the bolt heads, there is some crevice corrosion on the backsides where they were in contact with the caprail and sealant.  The corrosion doesn't look that obvious to the naked eye, but under magnification, it is pretty ugly.  The rust staining on the bolts and chainplates wasn't really an issue after all, but the hidden side was a very significant find for us.  The process of getting chainplates off & on is enough to make you want to fix this for a good long time.    


    I waterjetted titanium plate for the chainplates.  A lifetime solution.  Titanium doesn't corrode.  Took some doing but it's such a massive project that the added effort was worth it.  Even if I were to sell the boat the new owners would feel good about having titanium as such a key part.  


    I'd be happy to share my insight if anyone was interested.




  • May 07, 2015 5:11 PM
    Reply # 3336018 on 3334378
    Deleted user

    Jesse:

    The stainless has not changed, it is the post treatment (passivation or electorpolishing) makes all of the difference.

    as others state: You have to check the backs of the plates (If they are clean and crack free they are as good as new) do not replace, but if you have cracks (look very very very close) you need to replace them, if you dip the new ones in nitric acid for an hour then you will have better luck in the long run . (Note: the ones from Bud are Electropolished = to the dipping and much more shinny)

    and do try to stay out of the 70kt stuff it can not be that much fun.


    Last modified: May 16, 2015 10:22 AM | Deleted user
  • May 08, 2015 5:51 AM
    Reply # 3336500 on 3334378

    I will be grateful for any insight about replacing the chain plates.  

  • May 08, 2015 12:05 PM
    Reply # 3336983 on 3334378
    Deleted user

    Most of the nuts are easy but the top ones can be a pain (could even be glassed over near the bulkhead)

    tips

    1. Gear wrench is a friend. and worth the $$ for the tight spaces
    2. You can use grease. or elec. tape on the outside of the nut to wedge it into the box end of a wrench, i.e. to hold it in place while a second person turns the bolt on the outside to get it start when remounting.
    3. Drilling out the bolts is allot of work (but once the head is off you could punch them through using a punch or an old bolt you are going to throw away)
    4. If you want to keep the rig up, do all 4 lowers, then reinstall and use the running backs when you do the 2 uppers. 

    It is not much fun, but it is better to inspect than hope.

     

    Last modified: May 08, 2015 12:17 PM | Deleted user
  • May 09, 2015 9:17 AM
    Reply # 3337536 on 3334378
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Here is a link to a topic on chain plates in the members area > westsail fixes and FAQ...

    Do take photos of your work for your records ... 

    Link should work now.

    Fair Winds 

    Jay 

    Last modified: May 16, 2015 9:15 AM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • May 09, 2015 12:54 PM
    Reply # 3337679 on 3334378

    Hi,

    I have been doing a refit of our W42. I changed the chain plates and it is a challenge as stated. Some were accessible through lockers. On the others I removed the teak siding to get at them. The upper bolts were the worst. I used multiple types of wrenches including  gear wrenches. On some nuts, I used tape to hold the nuts in the wrench while others I managed to get my hand up in there. On one chain plate, I had to squeezed through the small locker that is the forward lower and part of the chart table. Very tight spaces !! I got replacement chainplates from Bud. I am as well replacing the bowsprit. The current one has numerous cracks. Welding was attempted, but the welders were endlessly chasing cracks. I regrettably remounted it and now more hair line cracks are showing up with the W42 sitting on the hard. I do not want to take a chance, so I have ordered a new one from Bud.  Next project is the engine. I have a Beta 75 which I will be installing and then leaking fuel / water tanks will be tackled. So lots of ongoing work. Bobstay, stern, and staysail tangs are all new, fabricated locally and from Bud. I also had to replace the bulkhead below the compression post and I-beam. I have taken many photos of the project as I go along. I would be happy to share photos, if that would be of help. Best of luck, George.

    Old name- Viking Rose

    New name upon recommission - Cadence

  • May 13, 2015 6:48 AM
    Reply # 3342066 on 3334378

    On all of the stainless parts I supply I have them electro polished to remove any machining material left on the metal, and to remove any surface impurities. The chain plates are also buffed to a mirror finish on the exterior surfaces. 

    This seems to inhibit any staining for quite some time. However,as my fabricator always reminds me, the material is stain-less, and will show staining eventually. 

    Are any of you still driving your 1975 car ?  Especially the one parked down by the waterfront

  • May 15, 2015 12:23 PM
    Reply # 3345128 on 3334378
    Deleted user

    Just a FYI

    I installed 6 of Buds plates, and as he noted they are all EP'ed; electropolishing is controlled rusting (the free iron is drawn out of the surface in much the way the lead is reduced in your battery).  I am still happy after 8 years

    but there are things you should NOT do to them.

    1.) lay any kind of tool on them, drill bit, hammer, etc. etc. (believe it or not the tool can soak some chrome off the surface and also can deposit free iron back on to the surface) = the start of a future rust spot or crack.

    2.) do not grind any ferrous metal (steel and stainless steel) near the plates again free iron on the surface. That is why they sell bronze wool for cleaning stuff.

    3.) try to keep any salts or chlorides (some cleaners) away from the back of the plates (once behind, it does not come out +/-)

    a note to Bud:  Be sure they are not buffing the parts after the EP as this can introduce breaks in the High Chrome surface. Polishing - buffing is the same as sanding just at a finer grit and can be enough to pull off the very very thin layer of Chrome rich surface.

    and Thanks again Bud for being there for us when we need parts!

    George the micro cracks go allot further than you think, if they do weld, have them drill a hole at the end of the crack; weld up the hole, if no further cracking, then they can weld up the crack. In any case welding is a repair when used to fill a crack and should be inspected often, new is often a much better deal in the long run.

    Last modified: May 16, 2015 10:02 AM | Deleted user
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